Posts aus der VTES-Rules-Gruppe bei Yahoo

[hardyrange]

Hallo,

ich werde mal hier die Posts zu Regelfragen wiedergeben, die LSJ himself für so interessant hält, dass er sie über die Yahoo-Group "VTES-Rules" (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vtes-rules/) verteilt.

Es handelt sich hier um Rulings, die in anderen Foren, Newsgroups etc. gemacht wurden, die man aber eben auch bei Yahoo abonnieren kann, wenn man nicht alles im Detail lesen will.

Bitte beachtet immer die Daten der Regelungen - ggf. werden Sie duch spätere Entscheidungen des Rules Teams wieder kassiert (hier handelt es sich immerhin um die interessanteren Fälle... )

[hardyrange]

Von: LSJ <vtesrep@white-wolf.com>
An: vtes-rules <vtes-rules@yahoogroups.com>
Betreff: [vtes-rules] Re: Rules Q: Sire's Index Finger
Datum: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:09:47 -0500

Daneel wrote:
> orcaorcinus@hotmail.com (Cameron) wrote in message news:<a1e26d99.0402091341.4e8fb0aa@posting.google.com>...
>
>>Fatima, equiped with Sires Index Finger Ambushs poor Bobby Lemon.
>>Fatima gets an Assault Rifle
>>Bobby plays Drawing out the beast (for no effect)
>>Fatima manuvers to long with the Assault Rifle
>>Fatima stikes AR
>>Bobby plays Canine Horde at superior to destroy the Sires Index
>>Finger, with first strike.
>>
>>Can Fatima strike with the Assault Rifle or does the DoTB take effect?
>>Or should Bobby have taken out the AR?
>
> I think that Drawing otB is not a lingering effect in the sense that
> it produces a one time effect (that affects the opposing minion for a
> given length).
>
> In this sense my take is this:
>
> Bobby plays Drawing otB - Fatima is immune to it. Card is normally
> placed in the ash heap, its effects unasserted.
> Fatima moves to long with AR.
> Bobby whacks sire's index finger - no effect, really.
> Fatima fries Bobby.

Correct.

This is a REVERSAL of the ruling on Lucian stealing a Sire's Index Finger
to become immune to Terror Frenzy - LSJ 16-DEC-2003

The frenzy cards resolve when played. If the target is not immune, the
target gets frenzied and suffers the effect for the duration stated.
Acquiring the Finger in the middle of the frenzy will not snap one out
of it.

Similarly, if the target is immune because of the Finger, the target
doesn't frenzy. Losing the Finger before the frenzy effect would have
ended (had it been able to be applied in the first place) doesn't
cause the target to suddenly enter into frenzy partway through.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[hardyrange]

Und ein weiterer Beitrag zu meiner Kampagne "Was man mit den Erciyes Fragments alles nicht machen kann"...

Von: LSJ <vtesrep@white-wolf.com>
An: VTES Rules <vtes-rules@yahoogroups.com>
Betreff: [vtes-rules] Re: LSJ: Erciyes Fragment question
Datum: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:17 -0400


Halcyan 2 wrote:
>>I'll re-ask this question in its own thread..
>>If you use the Erciyes Fragment to take a vote card from your prey's
>>ashheap, can you use it for a vote on someone else's referendum?
>>Specifically, the rules define it (poorly) as "using a political
>>action card" and that "political action cards used for votes are
>>simply burned without regard to the text on the cards." Does this meet
>>the ability granted by the EF to "play the card from the Fragments as
>>if playing it from your hand", or is "using" the vote in your hand
>>officially distinct from "playing" the card in your hand?
>>
>>I'd assume the answer is that you cannot do that, because the EF does
>>not provide you with the ability to burn that card, only play it, but
>>an official ruling would be appreciated.
>
> I would be inclined to agree. (That Erciyes does *not* allow you to burn the PA
> for a vote).
>
> Erciyes Fragment only allows you to *play* the card. According to the
> rules/rulings, burning a card for a vote during a referendum is *not* "playing"
> the card. (Hence why you pitching Ancient Influence for a vote doesn't prevent
> it from being played). Since burning a card for a vote doesn't count as
> "playing the card" for Ancient Influence / Political Stranglehold / Reins of
> Power, I don't see why it would for Erciyes Fragment.

Correct.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[Decebalus]

Wenn ich solche Rulings lese, dann denke ich (als jemand, der öfter mal judged) folgendes:

1. Fall: völlig uninteressant. Spielt eh keiner/Situation kommt nicht vor. Und ich hätte, ganz instinktiv, genauso gerulet.

2. Fall: Aha. Von der legalistischen Bedeutung richtig und einleuchtend. Aber muß es wirklich so kompliziert sein? Muß ich mir merken, weil die Fragments die Karte der Zukunft ist. (Ist halt einfach irre stark.)

[hardyrange]

Muß ich mir merken, weil die Fragments die Karte der Zukunft ist. (Ist halt einfach irre stark.)

Deshalb poste ich derzeit auch so gerne Beiträge dazu, was man damit nicht machen darf, vgl. auch http://www.vekn.de/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1124

Die Karte ist auch so schon heftig genug.

[Männele]

Muß ich mir merken, weil die Fragments die Karte der Zukunft ist. (Ist halt einfach irre stark.)

Die Karte ist auch so schon heftig genug.

Pssssst....

[Azrael]

Subject: Rules Team Rulings 01-MAY-2004
LSJ - 05/01/2004 20:17:43 - vtesrep@white-wolf.com

Q: Can I burn the edge to gain a vote before terms are set (which is
important for Code of Milan Suspended, for example), or can I use
Business Pressure before terms are set on Parity Shift to lower my
pool for a Parity Shift referendum?
A: No. The first thing that happens during a referendum is the setting
of terms. All the other effects are played during the Polling step.
This includes cards that are used "before votes are cast". (This is
errata to [6.3.2.1], making the setting of terms the only thing done
in that step. Polling now contains the "before votes are cast" step
followed by the general free-for-all voting step.)

Q: If I change my Thrown Sewer Lid (or Wind Dance, etc.) strike with
Primal Instincts, do I still get the optional press (or additional
strike, etc.) from the canceled strike?
A: No. Canceling a strike made with a strike card cancels the whole
effect of the card (although it cannot rewind time and cancel any
maneuver already used from that strike card - but note that in the
case of canceling a strike card that had been used to maneuver, the
minion cannot choose another strike, since the maneuver restricts him
to using only that strike).

Q: When I play Blood Brother Ambush, Conscripted Statue, Malleable
Visage, etc. to cancel one combat and start a different one, does that
new combat start immediately, or can other effects still be played
before that combat begins? Does this also apply to the slave rule
(when blocked, have a slave enter combat instead)?
A: Combat starts immediately. This applies to invoking the slave rule
as well, yes.

Q: Can card-cycling effects (Barrens, Fragment, etc.) be used during
the "as played" window (so as to allow a player to draw into a Sudden
or a Direct Intervention to cancel the "as played" card)?
A: No. The "as played" window is only as the card is being played. It
is before that card is replaced, even. The only cards that can be
played "as" another one is played are the ones the players have in
their hands at the time. (Not to be confused with the "as the action
is announced" step, which comes after the action card is played.) This
is a reversal of previous rulings.

Q: What effect does Gambit Accepted have if the controller withdraws?
A: The predator gets a victory point. (Errata to the card.)

Q: What does Seeds of Corruption restrict?
A: When Seeds is on a vampire, everyone is restricted from using that
vampire's special ability and/or bonuses. Things that are only
possible because of card text are not possible. Things that card text
makes impossible are still impossible. (Errata to card text.) Note
that this errata matches the state of affairs before the February
clarification (and overturns that clarification). Note also that sect,
title, and attribute texts (Gargoyles' Slave status, Blood Brothers'
Circles, etc.) are still not affected by Seeds of Corruption.

[hardyrange]

Von: LSJ <vtesrep@white-wolf.com>
An: VTES Rules <vtes-rules@yahoogroups.com>
Betreff: [vtes-rules] Re: [LSJ] Form of Mist + Mask of a Thousand?
Datum: Sat, 08 May 2004 07:12:38 -0400

crispy wrote:
> Makes sense. I missed "combat cards" being "other effects". I
> must've been looking at dated errata. So I know special abilities of
> vampires also qualify as other effects, so what is the result where:
>
> Scenario A:
> Lazverinus (w/ protean master) bleeds, is blocked, strikes hands (for
> 3, per card text), presses, form of mist to continue. Soldat wants to
> Mask to continue.
>
> Result A:
> He can't, since Lazverinus used his "+2 strength" special ability,
> which he must use if making a hand strike.

Correct.

> Scenario B:
> Lazverinus (w/ protean master) bleeds, is blocked, strikes hands (for
> 3, per card text), presses, form of mist to continue. Mateusz
> Gryzbowsky (w/ 2 Protean masters) wants to Mask to continue.
>
> Result B:
> He can, since he has +2 strength, so it's the "same" ability (he can
> strike with +2 strength in the same way he can play PRO cards at
> superior)

Correct. He could've struck hands for 3, so it could've been him after
all.

> The one that I can't grok from these principles is:
>
> Scenario C:
> Oliver Thrace (w/ 2 PRO masters) bleeds, blocked, strikes form of mist
> to continue. Opponent maybe can, or maybe can't, strike Majesty to
> untap. Soldat masks to continue.
>
> Result C:
> Don't know how it can be shown an ability which prohibits an action
> was used, short of the opponent showing the card and saying "well I
> _would_have_ played this." Or is it just impossible to mask an action
> where the acting vampire has an ability which prohibits something from
> happening, when it may have happened (can't Mask Aisling if a younger
> Tremere could have chosen to block)?
>
> I know it's ridiculous. I just want to know.

Soldat can. Same as Aisling bleeding and having some younger Tremere
want to block but being forced to decline. Anyone else can Mask
after the "I don't block" declaration, since the ability wasn't
technically used (it's merely a prohibition).


--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[Azrael]

Ist auch mal Interessant:

Subject: Mask 1000 faces and TGB
ozzken - 05/10/2004 07:54:24

Hi!

How does it work if a toreador takes an action with Toreador Grand
Ball and you play Mask 1000 faces? Is that action sucessfull if I
play the mask 1000 faces after people have declined to block? Do the
get another chance to block?

Can the minion finishing the action be of another clan than toreador?

/Henrik




Subject: Mask 1000 faces and TGB
LSJ - 05/10/2004 08:03:41 - vtesrep@white-wolf.com

It works.
Yes, you can take over after declarations of "no block".
No, they don't get a new blocking opportunity.
Yes, the Masking vampire can be non-Toreador.

[Azrael]

Ist noch nicht draussen, die Karte, hat aber schon ein Ruling...

Seal of Veddartha: The first counter adds one level of Dominate. If the bearer already had one level of Dominate (i.e., inferior Dominate), then he or she now has two levels of Dominate (i.e., superior). Likewise with the third counter and Fortitude. [LSJ 20040503]

[Johannes]

Seal of Veddartha: The first counter adds one level of Dominate. If the bearer already had one level of Dominate (i.e., inferior Dominate), then he or she now has two levels of Dominate (i.e., superior). Likewise with the third counter and Fortitude. [LSJ 20040503]

Welcher Schwätzer hatte unglängst Mittwochs behauptet das wäre anderst? Zum Glück kann ich mich net erinnern ... dann ist das Teil ja schon der Hammer für die Muaziz.

[Männele]

Seal of Veddartha: The first counter adds one level of Dominate. If the bearer already had one level of Dominate (i.e., inferior Dominate), then he or she now has two levels of Dominate (i.e., superior). Likewise with the third counter and Fortitude. [LSJ 20040503]

Welcher Schwätzer hatte unglängst Mittwochs behauptet das wäre anderst? Zum Glück kann ich mich net erinnern ... dann ist das Teil ja schon der Hammer für die Muaziz.

Das Teil ist sowieso geil, für wen auch immer. Für Tremere ist es sicher besonders interessant.

[Azrael]

Subject: escaped mental patient
tindalos - 05/10/2004 07:12:45 - tindalos@has.it

If the patient strikes with his special strike at +1 aggravated
damage, will he still burn if a Rotschreck is played on his opponent?
I wonder the same thing about dragonbreath rounds. Does the gun burn
if combat is ended with a Rotschreck?

/tindalos




Subject: escaped mental patient
ardenmcbathan - 05/10/2004 07:35:25 - sonnenkoenig207@aol.com

no, since he never strikes as combat is ended before strike resolution
(yes, same as DBR).
note though that you cannot play rotschreck during your own turn, so
he has to be blocking, or the 'schreck has to be played by another
meth




Subject: escaped mental patient
the_capuchin - 05/11/2004 09:16:31

The text in Escaped Mental Patient says that he burns *after* combat
if he strikes at +1 hand damage, aggravated. I suppose it means that
he burns after Rotschreck is played, yes.




Subject: escaped mental patient
LSJ - 05/11/2004 09:17:54 - vtesrep@white-wolf.com

> I suppose it means that he burns after Rotschreck is played, yes.

No, since in that case, he won't have struck in the manner required to
activate the post-combat burn. No strike resolution means no strike.

[Azrael]

Nightmares upon Nightmares: Allies are not affected, and vampires with capacity above the number of Gehenna cards in play are not affected. [LSJ 20040415]

Vox Senis: When used as an out-of-turn master, Vox Senis may still be canceled by a Sudden Reversal. [LSJ 20031201]

Form of Mist: The blood for the superior effect is paid after combat ends. If the effect is interrupted (via Telepathic Tracking or whatever), then the blood is not paid. [LSJ 20031123]

Gemini's Mirror: Gemini's Mirror doesn't protect the minion's equipment, retainers, or any other cards on him. Just him (and his blood). [LSJ 20031118]

[Männele]

Gemini's Mirror: Gemini's Mirror doesn't protect the minion's equipment, retainers, or any other cards on him. Just him (and his blood). [LSJ 20031118]

Diese Regel gilt ja wohl nur für GM superior. Der Dodge auf inferior schützt selbstverständlich auch das Equipment wie im Regelbuch unter 6.4.5. zu lesen ist.

Retainers sind sowieso von dodges nicgt geschützt.