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Posted: **20 Jan 2004, 11:25**

I've returned to an old love - Malkavian Tabledance, but re-worked. Comments?

Deck Name: Obscene Madness revisited
Created By: Tobias
Description: Uses a collection of the most evil cards in the game.
Dies to combat anyway, so why include combat cards (other than secure haven and emergency maneuvers with swallowed by the night)?

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 11, Max: 28, Avg: 5,25)
----------------------------------------------
3 Gilbert Duane AUS DOM OBF 7, Malkavian:1, Prince
3 Greger Anderssen AUS dom OBF pro 7, Malkavian:2, Prince
1 Watenda obf 3, Malkavian:2
1 Zoe AUS cel obf 3, Malkavian:2
1 Dollface aus obf 3, Malkavian:1
2 Victoria AUS cel obf 5, Malkavian:2
1 Normal obf 2, Malkavian:1

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (23 cards)
6 Anarch Revolt
2 Direct Intervention
3 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Legendary Vampire
5 Madness Network
1 Parthenon, The
2 Secure Haven
3 Storage Annex

Action (1 cards)
1 Aranthebes, The Immortal

Action Modifier (19 cards)
2 Cryptic Rider
5 Forgotten Labyrinth
5 Lost in Crowds
7 Telepathic Vote Counting

Political Action (23 cards)
2 Conservative Agitation
3 Dramatic Upheaval
3 Kindred Restructure
4 Kine Resources Contested
2 Malkavian Justicar
6 Parity Shift
1 Praxis Seizure: Amsterdam
1 Praxis Seizure: Athens
1 Rumors of Gehenna

Reaction (14 cards)
4 Malkavian Rider Clause
5 Telepathic Counter
5 Telepathic Misdirection

Ally (2 cards)
2 Muddled Vampire Hunter

Equipment (1 cards)
1 Sargon Fragment, The

Combo (7 cards)
7 Swallowed by the Night

I was very strong in a 6 player game with this deck last night (the table timed out, but I was the only one taking a VP, and things were looking good). On the table were Gangrel Vote (at one point up to 13 votes with an Elysium: versailles), Lasombra toolbox (with Marcus Vitel out during the whole game), setite tempt/necro/bloat, me, force of will bleed and a !Nos BH precon (in that order).

Thoughts: Include 1 more Malkavian Rider clause, maybe drop the parthenon and the 3 storage annexes for more stealth/cryptic rider? I originally had the parthenon/storage annex combination for holding table-swapping votes and anarch revolts, but in the whole game, they were just used to park cards I didn't need at the moment. But maybe I should just test that angle a bit more.

I had an opening crypt with 2 greger, victoria, and watenmda. The first 2 vampires I bought were another greger and a 2nd victoria, then I finally got normal, watenda and zoe in the following turns. So I'm wondering if I should go to 2 copies of the 2 princes, and add in 2 more lowcap malkies, and more malkavian justicar votes.

Posted: **20 Jan 2004, 16:01**

Tobias wrote:I've returned to an old love - Malkavian Tabledance, but re-worked. Comments?

Some, if you like...

Tobias wrote:Deck Name: Obscene Madness revisited
Created By: Tobias
Description: Uses a collection of the most evil cards in the game.
Dies to combat anyway, so why include combat cards (other than secure haven and emergency maneuvers with swallowed by the night)?

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 11, Max: 28, Avg: 5,25)
----------------------------------------------
3 Gilbert Duane AUS DOM OBF 7, Malkavian:1, Prince
3 Greger Anderssen AUS dom OBF pro 7, Malkavian:2, Prince
1 Watenda obf 3, Malkavian:2
1 Zoe AUS cel obf 3, Malkavian:2
1 Dollface aus obf 3, Malkavian:1
2 Victoria AUS cel obf 5, Malkavian:2
1 Normal obf 2, Malkavian:1

Despite your ideas below I'd keep the crypt as it is. It more or less guarantees a prince in the first draw, and that is more important than pssoible crypt-jam due to duplicates. This deck should run okay on 3 minions.

Tobias wrote:Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (23 cards)
6 Anarch Revolt
2 Direct Intervention
3 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Legendary Vampire
5 Madness Network
1 Parthenon, The
2 Secure Haven
3 Storage Annex

Of course I'll say it: Too many masters :-)

How do you plan to keep the Network? You can't intercept much, and your combat is, well, non-existant.

Zero pool-gain in an Anarch Revolt deck - only Parity Shift. One Delaying Tactics can kill you.

I've never been a fan of Storage Annexes, and 3 Dreams seems excessive - your not combo-heavy, are you?

Tobias wrote:Action (1 cards)
1 Aranthebes, The Immortal

Yup.

Tobias wrote:Action Modifier (19 cards)
2 Cryptic Rider
5 Forgotten Labyrinth
5 Lost in Crowds
7 Telepathic Vote Counting

This I guess depends on your meta-game. Locally, a prince, one for the vote and TVC won't cut it. Cryptic I can only see on Anarch removal or Malk justicar, you have no other votes that anyone would vote for if he knows what this deck is doing.

Tobias wrote:Political Action (23 cards)
2 Conservative Agitation
3 Dramatic Upheaval
3 Kindred Restructure
4 Kine Resources Contested
2 Malkavian Justicar
6 Parity Shift
1 Praxis Seizure: Amsterdam
1 Praxis Seizure: Athens
1 Rumors of Gehenna

Looks good, err, evil... Maybe really more Justicars and Cryptics?

Tobias wrote:Reaction (14 cards)
4 Malkavian Rider Clause
5 Telepathic Counter
5 Telepathic Misdirection

I think 4 Rider Clause is enough. You don't have that many Revolts anyway, and after people have seen it once, it might not happen again...

Tobias wrote:Ally (2 cards)
2 Muddled Vampire Hunter

Always nice...

Tobias wrote:Equipment (1 cards)
1 Sargon Fragment, The

Prayer card. Dunno...

Tobias wrote:Combo (7 cards)
7 Swallowed by the Night

I have limited experience with this sort of deck, but the lack of any Blood Dolls/Minion Taps would bother me. Parity Shift has an opportunity cost and only goes this far against other voters/Delaying Tactics. You have very little defense against combat and other voters, and even a dedicated bleed deck should give you trouble. Defensive table-jumping you'll say... It never worked for me so well. Apart from that I'd test it a little more often and decide afterwards if weeniefying makes it better.

sk.

Posted: **20 Jan 2004, 18:02**

Hmm, Malkavian Vote has always been one of my favourites. But in the recent time I have noticed an increasing number of permanent votes on the table due to biggish vampires in new expansions. Even if people don´t vote they tend to have quite some votes on the table so the voting power of this deck might not be enough to push votes through. I have a similiar deck also featuring Lucian and a little bit less seat-changing votes. Why Lucian ? 3 votes for sure and allows for nasty Temptation of Greater Power / Parity Shift Combo, Rutors Hand and is big enough for Obedience. I have the same other vampires with addition of Mariel to hose one Vampire Combat Decks a bit.

I rely quite a lot on Malkavian Rider Clause AND Cryptic Rider. It is important to notice that those votes cannot be delayed ! In recent games I have found the usage of Lyndhurst Estate rather usefull. Seems to be a crap card in the beginning but it is not bad when equiped by a small vampire hunting for votes

I have no Madness Network at all because I cannot defend it and it is usually enough to changes seats behind an easy kill, the tabledance thing is too fragile anyway.

In the Master section I found also stealth in the form of Creepshow Casino and the Forest thingy (can´t remember the name) rather usefull. Instead of Aranthebes I would go for a Muddled Vampire Hunter, tends to scare people off

Just some of my very disordered thoughts on Malkavian Vote.

I guess there is some Malky-Tabledance potential with the Protean-Malks but I guess this is rather difficult to explore.

Posted: **21 Jan 2004, 13:23**

the scavenger wrote:
Tobias wrote:I've returned to an old love - Malkavian Tabledance, but re-worked. Comments?
Some, if you like...

I like. Thanks

Tobias wrote:Deck Name: Obscene Madness revisited
Created By: Tobias
Description: Uses a collection of the most evil cards in the game.
Dies to combat anyway, so why include combat cards (other than secure haven and emergency maneuvers with swallowed by the night)?

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 11, Max: 28, Avg: 5,25)
----------------------------------------------
3 Gilbert Duane AUS DOM OBF 7, Malkavian:1, Prince
3 Greger Anderssen AUS dom OBF pro 7, Malkavian:2, Prince
1 Watenda obf 3, Malkavian:2
1 Zoe AUS cel obf 3, Malkavian:2
1 Dollface aus obf 3, Malkavian:1
2 Victoria AUS cel obf 5, Malkavian:2
1 Normal obf 2, Malkavian:1
Despite your ideas below I'd keep the crypt as it is. It more or less guarantees a prince in the first draw, and that is more important than pssoible crypt-jam due to duplicates. This deck should run okay on 3 minions.

I've sort of decided on dropping 1 prince for an Ozmo.

Tobias wrote:Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (23 cards)
6 Anarch Revolt
2 Direct Intervention
3 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Legendary Vampire
5 Madness Network
1 Parthenon, The
2 Secure Haven
3 Storage Annex
Of course I'll say it: Too many masters

How do you plan to keep the Network? You can't intercept much, and your combat is, well, non-existant.

True. Of course, at some point on the table, people won't want to take the action to remove the things (other concerns). The Network is not truly essential to the deck, indeed. I will do a test-run where I strip out the parthenon, 2 Networks and a dreams. And replace them with cryptic (and maybe some blood dolls?). Swallowed by the night really's my only emergency combat maneuver defense - but I don't make any illusions that'll be enough.

Zero pool-gain in an Anarch Revolt deck - only Parity Shift. One Delaying Tactics can kill you.

True. And Victoria-edge tricks, but that's really fragile. However, cryptic and MRC votes cannot be delayed...

I've never been a fan of Storage Annexes, and 3 Dreams seems excessive - your not combo-heavy, are you?

I might swap around a bit.

Tobias wrote:Action (1 cards)
1 Aranthebes, The Immortal
Yup.

Tobias wrote:Action Modifier (19 cards)
2 Cryptic Rider
5 Forgotten Labyrinth
5 Lost in Crowds
7 Telepathic Vote Counting
This I guess depends on your meta-game. Locally, a prince, one for the vote and TVC won't cut it. Cryptic I can only see on Anarch removal or Malk justicar, you have no other votes that anyone would vote for if he knows what this deck is doing.

There's always table-balancing parity shifts. And chaining's always a possibility. Of course, if a prince and a TVC won't cut it, that means there's other votes out there - which means, possibly, hopefully, that I get to use the MRCs. But i could always swap out the 2 praxis for 2 more malky justicars.

Tobias wrote:Political Action (23 cards)
2 Conservative Agitation
3 Dramatic Upheaval
3 Kindred Restructure
4 Kine Resources Contested
2 Malkavian Justicar
6 Parity Shift
1 Praxis Seizure: Amsterdam
1 Praxis Seizure: Athens
1 Rumors of Gehenna
Looks good, err, evil... Maybe really more Justicars and Cryptics?

Maybe, yeah.

Tobias wrote:Reaction (14 cards)
4 Malkavian Rider Clause
5 Telepathic Counter
5 Telepathic Misdirection
I think 4 Rider Clause is enough. You don't have that many Revolts anyway, and after people have seen it once, it might not happen again...

True.

Tobias wrote:Ally (2 cards)
2 Muddled Vampire Hunter
Always nice...

Tobias wrote:Equipment (1 cards)
1 Sargon Fragment, The
Prayer card. Dunno...

But a really GOOD prayer card.

Tobias wrote:Combo (7 cards)
7 Swallowed by the Night
I have limited experience with this sort of deck, but the lack of any Blood Dolls/Minion Taps would bother me. Parity Shift has an opportunity cost and only goes this far against other voters/Delaying Tactics. You have very little defense against combat and other voters, and even a dedicated bleed deck should give you trouble. Defensive table-jumping you'll say... It never worked for me so well. Apart from that I'd test it a little more often and decide afterwards if weeniefying makes it better.

And test it I will. The first results were encouraging, anyways.

sk.

Posted: **21 Jan 2004, 13:31**

Thea Bell wrote:Hmm, Malkavian Vote has always been one of my favourites. But in the recent time I have noticed an increasing number of permanent votes on the table due to biggish vampires in new expansions. Even if people don´t vote they tend to have quite some votes on the table so the voting power of this deck might not be enough to push votes through.

This is a big concern, yes. I'm considering changing the 2 praxis for Malkavian justicars, slimming the master section, and adding some more cryptics.

I have a similiar deck also featuring Lucian and a little bit less seat-changing votes. Why Lucian ? 3 votes for sure and allows for nasty Temptation of Greater Power / Parity Shift Combo, Rutors Hand and is big enough for Obedience. I have the same other vampires with addition of Mariel to hose one Vampire Combat Decks a bit.

I'd be interested in a decklist.

I rely quite a lot on Malkavian Rider Clause AND Cryptic Rider. It is important to notice that those votes cannot be delayed ! In recent games I have found the usage of Lyndhurst Estate rather usefull. Seems to be a crap card in the beginning but it is not bad when equiped by a small vampire hunting for votes I have no Madness Network at all because I cannot defend it and it is usually enough to changes seats behind an easy kill, the tabledance thing is too fragile anyway.

The networks are really fragile, indeed. I might drop 2 of them. On the other hand, any action people are taking to remove the network, is an action they're not taking to do something else. And it's probably good to do this things right (5 MN) or not at all (0 MN)

In the Master section I found also stealth in the form of Creepshow Casino and the Forest thingy (can´t remember the name) rather usefull. Instead of Aranthebes I would go for a Muddled Vampire Hunter, tends to scare people off

already have 2 Muddles.... don't know what to do about this yet. Aranthebes can't be stolen crosstable..

Just some of my very disordered thoughts on Malkavian Vote.

I guess there is some Malky-Tabledance potential with the Protean-Malks but I guess this is rather difficult to explore.

I took my first GW with one of these, back in april 2002

Posted: **24 Jan 2004, 07:53**

Tobias wrote: Dies to combat anyway, so why include combat cards (other than secure haven and emergency maneuvers with swallowed by the night)?

I know my opinion on this is contrary to most Malkav players, but I think it is worth it to have options in combat. I'd feel very uneasy to know: one rush and a well placed diablerie and I'm out of the game. So I always include some combat cards. I'm especially loving Swallowed by the Night, Behind You! and the new Mirror thing, maneuver AND dodge for just one blood on inferior obfuscate

. You may say a good combat deck can counter this and in most cases you are right. But often there are decks which have a weakness, either just a few maneuvers before the Immortal Grapple or nothing against Dodges. So you can live another turn to make the descisive (?) vote or move. And there are often combatdecks, which are not built well enough.

Most players know that Malkavs are one of if not THE most dangerous clan of the game. So they will rush you, I'm sure (but maybe not in your environment, your experiences may be others). Handjamming is no problem with combat cards, as you can get rid of them easily. Nobody fears to block a Malkavian.

I made good experiences with combat cards in non-combat decks. They often enough saved my a.... and gave me time to make my Vp.

Posted: **24 Jan 2004, 13:29**

Männele wrote:
Tobias wrote: Dies to combat anyway, so why include combat cards (other than secure haven and emergency maneuvers with swallowed by the night)?
I know my opinion on this is contrary to most Malkav players, but I think it is worth it to have options in combat. I'd feel very uneasy to know: one rush and a well placed diablerie and I'm out of the game. So I always include some combat cards. I'm especially loving Swallowed by the Night, Behind You! and the new Mirror thing, maneuver AND dodge for just one blood on inferior obfuscate . You may say a good combat deck can counter this and in most cases you are right. But often there are decks which have a weakness, either just a few maneuvers before the Immortal Grapple or nothing against Dodges. So you can live another turn to make the descisive (?) vote or move. And there are often combatdecks, which are not built well enough.

Most players know that Malkavs are one of if not THE most dangerous clan of the game. So they will rush you, I'm sure (but maybe not in your environment, your experiences may be others). Handjamming is no problem with combat cards, as you can get rid of them easily. Nobody fears to block a Malkavian.

I made good experiences with combat cards in non-combat decks. They often enough saved my a.... and gave me time to make my Vp.

I understand where you're coming from.

It's basically a choice between doing something you want to do very well (vote/stealth etc.) and having a (weak) defense against combat. Normally I wouldn't play combat-less decks (and I prefer my malkavians with protean, normally), but this is an experiment.

In my environment, people tend to 'just work' their end of the table (At least, it generally is so in prelim rounds). Malkavians don't get rushed just because they are malkavian (although my deck will cause hate all over the table).

So it's a just a fun, evil, deck I love playing that I'll be taking to a regular tournament. If there were bigger things at stake (ECQ, for instance), I'd bring something different.

Thanks for the comments, though, and I do want to consider them... what would you remove for Gemini's Mirror(s)?

T

Posted: **24 Jan 2004, 20:21**

Tobias wrote:Thanks for the comments, though, and I do want to consider them... what would you remove for Gemini's Mirror(s)?

I don't know exactly. I'd like to post my personal Malkav Vote Deck tomorrow (don't we all have one of these pesty decks

). It is of course not that straight forward because of the mentioned reasons but can stand one round against an Ivory Bow, an Entombment or the odd Coma.

Posted: **26 Jan 2004, 12:01**

Männele wrote:
Tobias wrote:Thanks for the comments, though, and I do want to consider them... what would you remove for Gemini's Mirror(s)?

I don't know exactly. I'd like to post my personal Malkav Vote Deck tomorrow (don't we all have one of these pesty decks ). It is of course not that straight forward because of the mentioned reasons but can stand one round against an Ivory Bow, an Entombment or the odd Coma.

That would be cool.

I've been thinking whether it's worth to include an ivory bow, a .44 and a deer rifle....

Watenda with a .44 is scary.

Posted: **31 Jan 2004, 09:13**

Tobias wrote:
Männele wrote:
Tobias wrote:Thanks for the comments, though, and I do want to consider them... what would you remove for Gemini's Mirror(s)?

I don't know exactly. I'd like to post my personal Malkav Vote Deck tomorrow (don't we all have one of these pesty decks ). It is of course not that straight forward because of the mentioned reasons but can stand one round against an Ivory Bow, an Entombment or the odd Coma.
That would be cool.

I've been thinking whether it's worth to include an ivory bow, a .44 and a deer rifle....

Watenda with a .44 is scary.

As I promised "yesterday" (or s.th.

) here comes my decksuggestion:

Crypt:

2x Lucian
3x Gilbert Duane
3x Greger Anderson
Zebulon
Didi Meyers
Watenda
Zoe..

Library:

Master:
3x Blood Doll
2x Minion Tap
2x Sudden Rev.
Asylum HG
Elysium: The Arboretum
Elysium: The Palace of Vers.
Giant's Blood
Dreams of the Sphinx
Direct Intervention
2x Obfuscate (or Dominate, I don't know exactly, what's better. Just for the small ones)
(a Legendary Vamp. would be nice)

Political Actions:

7x Kine Resources Contested
4x Conservative Agitation
3x Parity Shift
2x Kindred Restructure
Praxis Seizure: Amsterdam (or maybe a Justicarvote?)
Disputed Territiory

Reaction:
5x Wakes
Second Trad.
2x Malkavian Rider Clause

Dom.:
7x Govern the Unaligned
2x Seduction
5x Deflection

Obfuscate:
5x Gemini's Mirror
6x Swallowed by the Night
6x Elder Impersonation
5x Lost in Crowds

Auspex:
3x Read Intentions
3x Telepathic Vote Counting
4x Telepathic Misdirection

other Actions:
Ivory Bow
2x Third Tradition: Progeny

Sorry for not using the eldb, I'm at work.

Like I mentioned before the main difference is of course the (more or less) 14 Combatcards. Some maneuvers, some presses, some dodges. It have to deal with other decks for votes, but that's okay. Where's a will, there's a way.

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