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Tobias wrote:I posted this deck somewhere in another thread, but I WOULD like some comments.

Basically, I buy into the "let's use the SL tournaments to give a card to the clans that need it" theory. And I love Samedi as a concept, but they suck soooo bad.... So... here's something that hopefully WONT suck...

the scavenger wrote:

Tobias wrote:I posted this deck somewhere in another thread, but I WOULD like some comments.

Basically, I buy into the "let's use the SL tournaments to give a card to the clans that need it" theory. And I love Samedi as a concept, but they suck soooo bad.... So... here's something that hopefully WONT suck...

Incidentely it's also not really a Samedi deck - I mean, you want Shamblings and Deflections, which the Giovanni are more than willing to give at roughly half the average capacity. Okay, there's Freak Drives, but a classic Hordes deck doesn't need them so badly, especially if you can manage a more weenie crypt. Stealth? CotHD, Spectral Divination, and you could even use Carlotta and Pochtli.

All true. I'm aware of this. You already know I played a SH deck before

Your design does a pretty decent job of substituting the obvious with Samedi, but what's the point?

Sorry if this sounded a bit sarcastic...

The point is to make the best possible Samedi deck - and I think that deck will contain no Thanathosis, unfortunately. No problem with the sarcasm.

Anyway, the deck itself. 12 Hordes in my experience is not enough to get them early and reliably (mine runs 15 in 80 cards at the moment). I don't really understand the weapon angle: You have neither rush nor intercept, how do you expect to get into combat?

Looking back at it, the weapon angle is something I would remove as well. And the reason there are less shambling is that I hope to

Recruit shambling - freak - GtU.

But the slots the weapons free up could become hordes. I ran 19 in my giovanni deck.

Also the crypt is a little light on Necro for a Hordes deck. I would run this as a pure The Baron show with some weenie deflectors and helping hands (George Frederick is decent, Lithrac to make it SL legal...).

Sure, but why use NEC for stealth when you have OBF?

sk.

Tobias wrote:

the scavenger wrote:Also the crypt is a little light on Necro for a Hordes deck. I would run this as a pure The Baron show with some weenie deflectors and helping hands (George Frederick is decent, Lithrac to make it SL legal...).

Sure, but why use NEC for stealth when you have OBF?

the scavenger wrote:

Tobias wrote:

the scavenger wrote:Also the crypt is a little light on Necro for a Hordes deck. I would run this as a pure The Baron show with some weenie deflectors and helping hands (George Frederick is decent, Lithrac to make it SL legal...).

Sure, but why use NEC for stealth when you have OBF?

Not sure if I follow you here... I'm talking about Hordes, and they required Necromancy last time I looked. Your crypt has one minion with NEC and one with nec, all in all 6 out of 12, and that strikes me as maybe not enough. My suggestions goes towards 5 The Baron, so you'll have him out for sure to both recruit and deflect/govern...

sk.

Tobias wrote:Someone else suggested swapping in 2 coroner's contact... because if you can play them early, the baron could be influenced in 2 turns instead of 3... but I think just 2 slots for an effect that is best used early is just asking for trouble....

Tobias wrote:How about this, then?

I've played a bit with the bleed cards as well, keeping in mind the baron's +1 bleed and Archon Investigation, and the synergy of GtU/Freak/Scouting, and some cheaper bleed modifiers.

the scavenger wrote:

Tobias wrote:Someone else suggested swapping in 2 coroner's contact... because if you can play them early, the baron could be influenced in 2 turns instead of 3... but I think just 2 slots for an effect that is best used early is just asking for trouble....

Maybe Dreams instead of Barrens? First or second turn DotS has the same effect on influencing The Baron, adn with the new crypt you don't really need to dig him out first.

We think alike. After I posted this, I swapped in 2 DotS for the Barrens (and something else, I forget)

Tobias wrote:How about this, then?

I've played a bit with the bleed cards as well, keeping in mind the baron's +1 bleed and Archon Investigation, and the synergy of GtU/Freak/Scouting, and some cheaper bleed modifiers.

I would still consider weenies instead of Catherine - maybe Rudolpho, Lia Milliner and Marciana? Adds some cheap Necromancy, Dominate for Deflections and a little intercept (all your Samedi are non-Sabbat)...

I could always swap out 1 Catherine for a Marciana

Bleed cards look good, but once your crypt contains more casual Dominate (the weenies above), consider Bonding instead of Threats - on dom it's all the same, but once The Baron learns DOM, he'll be below Archon attention and flying with some extra stealth in this case. If you go weenie, swap some stealth stuff (Faceless?) for Cloak the Gathering. Also nice to direct Hordes to their main target. Good call on Spying Mission!

Good call on the Bonding vs. Threat thing - I'll do that

The part I have no real idea about is combat: 9 slots for Fortitude prevention. Hmmm... In our neck of the woods that won't save your ass, and I'd rather go with a Secure Haven or two, some Swallowed by the Night and untapped Hordes to discourage zero-stealth Bum's Rushers.

I've been pondering the Swallowed's myself (also with the bow in mind), but there's a lack of superior OBF, of course. But I can swap the faceless nights out for them - which makes another 3 cards to protect the Baron. Untapped hordes were already part of the plan... but how the heck to fit in 2 secure havens (or even 1)? What to drop? I guess I'll drop a delaying tactics.

sk.

Tobias wrote:

the scavenger wrote:The part I have no real idea about is combat: 9 slots for Fortitude prevention. Hmmm... In our neck of the woods that won't save your ass, and I'd rather go with a Secure Haven or two, some Swallowed by the Night and untapped Hordes to discourage zero-stealth Bum's Rushers.

I've been pondering the Swallowed's myself (also with the bow in mind), but there's a lack of superior OBF, of course. But I can swap the faceless nights out for them - which makes another 3 cards to protect the Baron. Untapped hordes were already part of the plan... but how the heck to fit in 2 secure havens (or even 1)? What to drop? I guess I'll drop a delaying tactics.

Sebastian Hellmund wrote:Hi,
I recently had the same Idea on building Samedi Shambling hordes, it is very similar to yours but i´ve put some thanatosis in, I play I think it is Infection, it´s For/thn and costs two blood and prevents all combatdamage dealt to an ally or retainer in Combat , yes it is expensive but it is one action to recruit the hordes les, simply preventing the damage, on them and they are better in the "trap" which i use my deck

Sebastian

I'll just do a report for the whole day, from what I saw. The decklist
is at the end of the post. Basically, it was the no-combat-cards
version of my Samedi SB/Hordes deck. I didn't get the 5th baron the
deck needs to be SL-compatible, so I left in a second Catherine du
Bois.

The deck flowed really well for me on the day, generally there'd be
very few cards left in my library when the game was over. Thanks and
props to the people who suggested Jorge de la Muerte (his +1 bleed was
in effect a lot of times), computer hackings (instead of scouting
missions), more blood management, and specialization. It's a
monstrously good card for this deck. The Jake Washington's were also
excellent.

There were 19 or 20 people (some sleepyhead showed up late, but I'm
not sure he played). It was very good to see guys from Belgium and
Germany show up for this tournament as well. Always a pleasure.

Table 1:

Me -> Cryptic Mission (Isaac) -> Blood Brothers (Peter, IIRC)) -> Laz
Multirush (Dave)

The table started with the blood brothers going strong, later heard
the deck has 17 (!) Unwholesome bonds. I knew Lazverinus could toast
me easily, so I decided to bring out just 1 minion (Jorge de la
Muerte) and let him put a Shambling in the way of Laz, and play it
easy so that Lazverinus would have to go upstream. The cryptic deck
was turning over, but not very fast, it did take out 1 blood brother,
but Lazverinus did indeed have to go backward (those force of will /
walk of cain / daring the dawn bleeds were hurting, I bet). At one
point, I lost Jorge to an Archon Investigation. Around the time
Lazverinus went down to the bleeds, I got up another minion and bled
out my prey (unlucky with his deflect, although I did have the spying
missions ready against it). I then was 1-on-1 with the blood brother,
whose daring the dawns were not much of a threat due to the
shamblings. He did have 4 or 5 minions, but whenever they demolished a
shambling, I'd get a new one. In the end, his minions ended up in
torpor and I bled him out as well.

Me: 3 VP, GW; Peter: 1 VP

Table 2:

Me -> Ravnos toolbox (with dom?) -> !Tor vote (Bram) -> Weenie Dem
(Frank, IIRC) -> Cryptic Mission Again (Isaac)

The game started with the dementation weenie going bang out of the
games on Isaac, who turned his cryptics towards his predator to slow
him down. Knowing my prey would probably Sense Dep me, I decided to
only take actions with my first minion (George Frederick) if I had a
freak drive available, but I did get greedy one time and tapped him
for a Tasha Morgan, thinking my prey would sense dep his prey (since
Bram was also running well). I think my second minion was Isabel
Giovanni, but I'm not sure. I basically used the hordes as a deterrant
force (not much rushing, the way I prefer them), and slowly bled out
my prey. Bram had gotten his prey by that time, but I got my sense
depped minion back, brought out another minion, and in the 1-on-1
managed to take out Bram in the end (although Bram was kicking himself
for a few mistakes).

Me: 3 VP, GW, Bram: 2 VP

Table 3:

Me -> Lazverinus Again (Dave) -> Gangrel wall w. serpentis (Tom) ->
!Malk SB with Anarch Revolt (Dieter) -> Nosferatu/Beast Vote/Rush with
presence (Dietmar)

Dieter started with a round-1 (or was it 2?) Anarch Revolt, and a
quick SB minion, prompting Dietmar to go backwards with his rush
power. In reponse, Dieter shifted to a strategy of not bringing out
minions (since his predator was not a powerful bleeder), to get
Dietmar to go forward into me. Dave, in the meantime, did not get a
Laz in his opening crypt, and before Laz could make an appearance I
had pounded his minions and his pool, so Laz never made it. With a
little dealing with Dietmar, Tom ousted Dieter, and I then ousted Tom
with big SB. In the 1-on-1 with Dietmar, I went down to the rushing
power of Dietmar.

Me: 2 VP, Tom: 1 VP, Dietmar: 2 VP.

Finals:

I got into the finals in 1st place, and previous placement had been:

Tzimi Vote (Oortje) -> Nos princely breed/vote (Paul) -> Gangrel Wall
(Emiliano) -> Nos/Beast Vote/Rush (Dietmar).

Knowing that the gangrel wall could stop/slow me if my stealth wasn't
flowing well, I didn't want to sit next to it, and I didn't really
like the rush power of Dietmar either. And, of course, with 3 vote
decks at the table, I'd love it if they were at each other's throats.
I thought Oortje's deck would probably run the slowest initially,
allowing me some setup time, and Paul would be slowed by the Gangrel
wall, so I decided to sit between Oortje and Paul:

Tzimi -> Me -> Nos Breed -> Gangrel -> Nos Rush

Everyone started off fairly well. I got out an early Rudolfo and
Shambling, followed by the baron. Paul started breeding heavily, but I
bled into him fairly hard (although the shambling rushes were
generally ineffective due to his maneuvers, so I mostly kept the
shambling untapped as deterrants, again). Jost was bleeding into me a
bit, but Oortje didn't get many votes, and, as predicted, the vote
decks were at odds with each other. Paul was allowed a Parity shift on
his prey once by the other voters (mostly Dietmar), but kept going
down to my bleeds. He did breed effectively though, and although he
did not have vote lock, he did have the biggest chunk of votes, so he
was both dangerous and in danger. In the end, all the talk etc.
amounted to nothing as a series of 3-and-less bleeds at +1 stealth got
him, including a Cloaked one by Jake Washington with J.S. Simmons (no
second trads on paul's hand that time). All the vote-talk had slowed
the table significantly, so some time after that the table timed out,
with me getting the only oust and the tournament win.

Once again, a fun tournament, with fun games and quality play. Thanks
to Emile for organising, all the people for travelling, and see you
all the 29th?

Greets,
Tobias

Deck Name: Even Samedi Are Better With Dominate
Created By: Tobias
Description:

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 36, Avg: 6.67)
----------------------------------------------
2 Catherine du Bois DOM for obf pre 5, Ventrue:3
4 Baron dom FOR NEC OBF THN 9, Samedi:2, 2 votes
2 George Frederick FOR nec obf THN 6, Samedi:2
2 Jorge De La Muerte cel for nec OBF THN 7, Samedi:2
1 Isabel Giovanni DOM NEC pot 5, Giovanni:2
1 Rudolfo Giovanni NEC 3, Giovanni:2

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (18 cards)
1 Barrens, The
5 Blood Doll
1 Charisma
4 Dominate
2 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Giant's Blood
2 Jake Washington (Hunter)
1 Secure Haven
1 Specialization

Action (16 cards)
5 Computer Hacking
6 Govern the Unaligned
5 Restoration

Action Modifier (23 cards)
5 Cloak the Gathering
3 Conditioning
2 Faceless Night
6 Freak Drive
3 Lost in Crowds
4 Spying Mission

Reaction (13 cards)
7 Deflection
6 Wake with Evening's Freshness

Ally (14 cards)
14 Shambling Hordes

Retainer (2 cards)
1 J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1 Tasha Morgan

Equipment (1 cards)
1 Sargon Fragment, The

Combo (3 cards)
3 Swallowed by the Night

ijiro wrote:wow

tournament win with samedi ... nice

and it seems it would even make fun to play the deck ... perhaps i'll build it too (with some mods of course ) and try it for myself ...

congratulations