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white-wolf.com wrote:You may tap Michael during a referendum to change the votes of a Camarilla vampire to votes of your choice.

Frage: Kann ich mit mit diesem Special auch die Votes eines Vampirs in Zustimmung oder Ablehnung ändern, der sich enthält?

-Vitel

ja
stefan

ProcF wrote:ja
stefan

leider... einfach zu krass.

white-wolf.com wrote:You may tap Michael during a referendum to change the votes of a Camarilla vampire to votes of your choice.

Wie verträgt sich das eigentlich mit der jungen Dame hier?

white-wolf.com wrote:Astrid Thomas
If Astrid votes, any Tremere who choose to vote will vote with her.

Kommt es am Ende gar auf die Reihenfolge an?

Gruss, Klapauzius.

Klapauzius wrote:

white-wolf.com wrote:You may tap Michael during a referendum to change the votes of a Camarilla vampire to votes of your choice.

Wie verträgt sich das eigentlich mit der jungen Dame hier?

white-wolf.com wrote:Astrid Thomas
If Astrid votes, any Tremere who choose to vote will vote with her.

Kommt es am Ende gar auf die Reihenfolge an?

Nein. Siehe folgende Klarstellung zu Ms. Thomas:

3. ASTRID THOMAS:
Q: If Kindred Coercion (sup) is used to change the votes of a Tremere
after Astrid has voted, does Astrid's ability still cause the
Tremere's votes to be cast "with" Astrid?
A: Yes. Astrid's ability is "checked" or "activated" when the votes
are tallied. The way her votes are cast at that time is how all other
(non-abstaining) Tremere's votes are cast.

(Rules Team Rulings 20-OCT-2000 )

sk.

the scavenger wrote:3. ASTRID THOMAS:
A: Yes. Astrid's ability is "checked" or "activated" when the votes
are tallied. The way her votes are cast at that time is how all other
(non-abstaining) Tremere's votes are cast.

Na, dann habe ich ja wenigstens noch ein Gegenmittel, wenns auch nur für die Tremere ist. Wollte die sowieso als nächstes spielen.

Gruss, Klapauzius.

Klapauzius wrote:

the scavenger wrote:3. ASTRID THOMAS:
A: Yes. Astrid's ability is "checked" or "activated" when the votes
are tallied. The way her votes are cast at that time is how all other
(non-abstaining) Tremere's votes are cast.

Na, dann habe ich ja wenigstens noch ein Gegenmittel, wenns auch nur für die Tremere ist. Wollte die sowieso als nächstes spielen.

Gruss, Klapauzius.

Gegenmittel?! Ich halte das sogar eher für eine ganz böse Falle:

Stell dir mal vor, die Stimmen von Astrid werden von Michael Luther umgedreht.....

Holger Christiansen wrote:Stell dir mal vor, die Stimmen von Astrid werden von Michael Luther umgedreht.....

Jau, stimmt. Auf sowas perfides bin ich bislang dann doch noch nicht gekommen.
Muss man also dafür sorgen, dass Luther getappt bleibt. Z.B. mit Mind Numb, das sollten die meisten Voter Decks wegen der pre ja spielen können.

Gruss, Klapauzius.

MarcusVitel wrote:

white-wolf.com wrote:You may tap Michael during a referendum to change the votes of a Camarilla vampire to votes of your choice.

Frage: Kann ich mit mit diesem Special auch die Votes eines Vampirs in Zustimmung oder Ablehnung ändern, der sich enthält?

-Vitel

Nein, kann er nicht!!! Man kann nur Votes change die auch für oder dagegen sind, nicht wenn sich der Vampir enthält.

Siehe(hier wird auch das Timing behandelt):

Timlagor wrote:
> Johannes Walch expounded:
>
>>One question came up in our latest V:TES night. I was controlling Michael
>>Luther and during a referendums we had the following situation (a bit
>>complicated):
>>I had 7 votes in favor, they had 8 votes against (4 princes). One of them
>>had a Justicar and he said the Justicar abstains from the referendum. The
>>were waiting that I change 1 prince in my favor thus making it 9 to 6 and
>>then voting with the Justicar to make the referendum fail. I was argumenting
>>that Michael Luthers ability can be applied after all votes were cast to
>>change one of the vampires votes and that I can change an abstaining
>>vampires votes. They were trying to argument that I cannot change abstaining
>>vampires votes and they can wait "forever" with the justicar to cast votes
>>just until Michael Luther has been tapped.
>>
>>So the question is : can I pass the referendum (how and why?) or can I not
>>(why?) ?
>
>
> You cannot force them to vote.
> The ability can only be used *after* they have voted -not if they don't
> vote. (first post googling for "luther" in the NG)
> After you use your ability they have the right to cast votes.
>
> They can wait 'forever' inasmuch as they don't have to vote -at some
> point you can call for any more votes and then declare the referendum
> over BUT you cannot use your ability after the referendum is over and
> nor can you use it and then rush to end the referendum before they can
> vote.
>
> You can't pass this referendum unless you have some other form of vote
> push.

Correct.
If everyone reaches the "I won't do anything until someone else does"
point, then it's time to close the referendum.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Gut bemerkt Erol ! Ich wollte auch schon was sagen, aber ich dachte schon die haben das ruling wieder revidiert ...